Curse

Bristlebane · Aug 30, 2011, 11:26 PM // 23:26

I know ST is common with Shelter for more or less permanent protection on your party, but what about other spirits, are they that bad alternatives?

Some examples:
Agony @14, permanent -5 degen on all foes in earshot. Combine with EoE for added pressure and make sure most mobs are under 90%.
Displacement, party wide 75% block. Should be good in areas with melees and rangers. Assassins would mess up all their chains. Spell casters would be screwed by 1-2 mesmer heroes anyways.
Gaze of Fury, the spirit that just never dies and keeps refreshing itself! Ok this last one was less serious unless it was attracting all aggro

Relyk · Aug 31, 2011, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Agony is channeling magic, the only other spirit you get is bloodsong and means no Communing. Energy is also a problem spamming it every 5-10 seconds.

Displacement is commonly used with ST.

Gaze of fury is also Channeling. And it's expensive. And heroes can't use it.

In general, ST is used with Shelter, Union, and Displacement. It also provides the option to spam Dissonance, Anguish, and Disenchantment. So there are plenty alternatives in addition to Shelter. You generally only use Communing since Channeling Magic doesn't allow you to take as much advantage of ST.

Lanier · Aug 31, 2011, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Id rather use SoGM or Rit Lord for offensive spirits.

Bristlebane · Aug 31, 2011, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Basically I was just refering to 1-spirit ST, like ST Shelter which is fairly common so it doesn't run out of charges before spirit is renewed. And with Boon of Creation you will not run out of energy. Consider all spirits costs 5-10 energy max and you get 5-6 energy in return.

Just for the fun of it though, I tried a permanent ST/Agony with EoE on Nameless, but for some reason EoE didn't trigger at all on the dummies even though all were under 90%.

On a more serious note, I do now run ST/Displacement on a regular basis rather than Shelter as it takes care of all the melee. Casters are handled by Panic mesmers and the little damage that goes through is handled by a single n/rt healer. Except for some hex/condition removal, rest is pure offensive.

Thenameless Wonder · Aug 31, 2011, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Just pump out 12 in spawning and use Ritualist lord with cons and your favorite spirits. Instantly have fun with R20+ in any spirit you want

Bristlebane · Aug 31, 2011, 02:17 AM // 02:17

yes RL is nice, sadly heroes suck at using RL correctly.
For players it's a great skill though

Pony Slaystation · Aug 31, 2011, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Id rather use SoGM or Rit Lord for offensive spirits.

Agreed. I usually like Rit Lord better for my personal builds, but SoGM for heroes. Either way, it gives a ton more damage.
I think Rit Lord actually could work pretty well for defensive too, I've just never tried it. As long as you keep using Summon Spirits on recharge, your spirits might actually last pretty long.

Bristlebane · Aug 31, 2011, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony Slaystation

I think Rit Lord actually could work pretty well for defensive too, I've just never tried it.

Summon Rejuvenation at +4 restoration/+4 spawning at max and you could summon a level 26 monster spirit.

= Level 26, 159 armor, 1026hp, last 110 seconds and heal party members for 12hp/second. (equal to 6 hp regen on anyone injured).

Support healer or a tank with armor of unfeeling perhaps? Lure mobs on spirit, pile them up, spike them down with a Deep Freeze + crapload of AoE. Spirit would probably still be alive after that lol. Let's put it this way.. an Aatxe dealing 300dmg to a caster would do 54dmg to this spirit, add in AoU and it's only 27dmg/hit :-)

Denar · Aug 31, 2011, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Spirit Lord Elites! :

Channeling; Take SoS! A spirit wall in one skill - it's free, and you've also specced to take spirit siphon, painful bond and splinter weapon.
Communing (Offense); Take SoGM! You'll use it way better than heroes (they summon offensive spirits when in combat, and use SoGM whenever a spirit they control attacks - therefore the first spirit will get SoGM, and none of the others).
Communing (Defense); Take ST! Ignore people who think Ritual Lord is also good - this lets you summon Shelter (arguably the most important one) for 10 energy 3 times every 15 seconds.
Restoration; Take Ritual Lord! The only way you can boost the effects of these spirits is by increasing the level at which they are summoned.

Bristlebane · Aug 31, 2011, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Still prefer ST Displacement over Shelter if I put a single spirit on my ST hero,
but that of course depends on what I'm up against. If mostly spell casters with heavy hitting spells, Shelter is good to soak up the spells getting passed the dom mesmers.

Lanier · Aug 31, 2011, 05:57 PM // 17:57

I would put both displacement and shelter on an ST bar if I ever ran ST bars... but I prefer ER prot on heroes more. On my player ST build though, I use both spirits.

Kunder · Sep 01, 2011, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Shelter is pretty much always much, much better than Displacement. Shelter prevents massive party-wide spikes, Displacement prevents some DPS. Physical attackers are inherently MUCH easier to neutralize (Weakness/Blind/Blocking, put any of them on and physicals pretty much do 0 damage), AoE casters are much harder to handle. Shelter scales better so that it takes less damage as it levels. Etc, etc. That said, bringing both isn't a bad idea, though neutralizing physicals another way so that your rit can do nothing but spam Shelter is sometimes better.

Ritual Lord is a nice idea for an elite, but has a number of problems:

1. SoS is better for offense.
2. ST is better for protection spirits.
3. SoGM is better for Communing offensive spirits
3. All thats left is spirits that don't quickly lose health on their own (ST is better) and don't attack (SoGM is better). This leaves you with nothing but Recuperation/Rejuvenation. Sadly, Recuperation costs 25e, and you have almost no energy management to rely on. Super-powerful Rejuvenation is nice, but in the end not being able to throw down Recuperation means you don't gain much actual healing at all. SoS + Spirit Siphon + healing spirits ends up being better.

Wish Ritual Lord could be used with all rit spells. R20 Splinter Weapon is infinitely badass...